No Reset Button: Reinventing Amplitude in a Post-AI World (Spenser Skates)

Welcome to Grit, where we go beyond the highlight reel and explore the personal and professional challenges of building history-making companies. Today we have Spencer Skates, the CEO and co-founder of Amplitude, who turned a data problem into a billion-dollar business when he was just 22 years old coming out of MIT.

In 2021, Spencer took Amplitude public, and now the platform is widely used. More interestingly, Spencer has become very philosophical and thoughtful about his approach to being a CEO and founder.

Timestamp: [00:43-01:26]

Spencer reflects on how technology cycles come in waves - from cloud applications and SaaS to big data, mobile, crypto, and now AI. Despite the current focus on AI, he notes that the intersection of AI and data analytics remains surprisingly underdeveloped.

Spencer believes there's an exciting opportunity in this space, even though it's still early days. When asked if he worries about an AI upstart disrupting Amplitude's category, he acknowledges the concern but points out a key advantage:

Amplitude possesses trillions of data points across billions of users - a proprietary dataset that gives them a competitive edge in developing AI capabilities for analytics. Spencer reveals they acquired Command AI last year and are working on an agent to help customers understand, explore, and act on their user data.

Timestamp: [01:26-05:48]

While Amplitude has a significant data advantage as an incumbent, Spencer candidly acknowledges they also face an architectural disadvantage - 13 years of "baggage" built on a tech stack that might look very different in an AI-first future.

Spencer describes the challenge of leading a $300 million public company while trying to innovate:

Timestamp: [05:03-05:48]

When asked about the urgency of "refounding" the company, Spencer explains his approach to driving innovation within a larger organization: creating insulated teams dedicated to new initiatives.

Spencer describes his strategy of finding founders working on relevant problems, acquiring them into Amplitude, and protecting their focus. He shares a key insight into why insulation is necessary:

To maintain focus, Spencer has implemented strict boundaries - like limiting access to innovation teams to scheduled bi-weekly meetings:

Timestamp: [05:48-08:49]

Spencer addresses the friction created when bringing in new talent to work on innovative projects while existing employees feel left out. He shares a revealing anecdote about dressing up as "old man analytics" for Halloween - a joke that was "a little too on the nose" and upset some team members.

To manage these tensions, Spencer emphasizes that analytics remains Amplitude's core identity and competitive advantage:

He reinforces this message by connecting all new initiatives back to that core strength:

Spencer concludes by acknowledging there are tradeoffs, but emphasizes there are "really exciting attractive things of working on the most important piece of Amplitude's success."

Timestamp: [08:49-11:22]

• Technology cycles come in waves (cloud/SaaS, big data, mobile, crypto, AI), with AI still being very early in the data analytics space
• Incumbents like Amplitude have a data advantage (trillions of proprietary data points) but face architectural disadvantages (legacy tech stack)
• Innovation within large organizations requires insulating dedicated teams from day-to-day company operations
• Preventing "hot new thing" syndrome requires strict boundaries between innovation teams and the rest of the company
• Maintaining core identity while innovating is crucial - for Amplitude, analytics remains the foundation of their competitive advantage
• There's inherent tension between existing product teams and innovation teams that requires careful management

Timestamp: [01:26-11:22]

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Digital analytics platform company co-founded by Spencer Skates
• MIT - Where Spencer Skates graduated from before founding Amplitude at age 22
• Command AI - Company acquired by Amplitude to work on AI initiatives
• Oracle - Referenced as an example of a company that maintains its core identity as a database company
• ChatGPT - Referenced as an example of AI models using open source datasets
• Midjourney - Referenced as an example of image-based AI models using open source datasets
• Anthropic - Mentioned in context of a meeting Spencer had just attended

Concepts:

• SaaS (Software as a Service) - Business model where software is licensed on a subscription basis
• Data Analytics - The process of examining data sets to find trends and draw conclusions
• AI Agents - Autonomous AI programs that can perform tasks or make decisions
• Technology Cycles - The pattern of technology evolution through successive waves of innovation

Timestamp: [01:26-11:22]

Spencer discusses the stark contrast between valuations for AI companies versus more established businesses like Amplitude, noting that AI companies are receiving massive premiums despite having much less revenue.

When asked if this frustrates him, Spencer admits it does "a little bit," but quotes Warren Buffett: "The market's a voting machine in the short term and a weighing machine in the long term." He observes that companies at Amplitude's stage (a few hundred million in revenue) appear particularly undervalued in the current market compared to both early-stage startups and larger public companies.

Spencer also shares that Amplitude went public relatively early at around $150 million in revenue. He argues this was the right call, despite a growing trend of companies like Stripe delaying their IPOs until they reach billions in revenue.

He points to tech legends who went public early and didn't let quarterly pressures dictate their vision:

Timestamp: [11:28-15:02]

When discussing the leadership challenges of running a public company, Spencer articulates his philosophy with a clear phrase: "Who's leading who." He believes a CEO's primary responsibility is to set direction, not follow external pressures.

Spencer draws an insightful parallel between building products and building businesses in public:

He challenges the notion that public markets necessarily degrade a company's ability to execute long-term vision:

Spencer cites Meta as a prime example where public market pressure actually helped the company:

He concludes with a powerful comparison:

Timestamp: [15:02-18:41]

When asked about the concept of markets being "open" or "closed" for IPOs, Spencer shares his "old school" perspective on the implicit promises made when raising venture capital.

Spencer argues that this commitment to providing liquidity is fundamental to the venture capital ecosystem:

He emphasizes the importance of public markets in establishing fair prices for companies:

Spencer points out the distortions that can happen in private markets:

He concludes with his foundational belief about the responsibilities of venture-backed founders:

Timestamp: [18:41-21:06]

• AI companies are currently receiving valuation premiums of 30%+ compared to established software companies at similar revenue levels
• Companies at the "few hundred million dollar" revenue stage appear particularly undervalued in the current market compared to both early-stage startups and larger public companies
• Going public early (like Amplitude at $150M revenue) follows the pattern of tech legends like Bezos, Jobs, Gates, and Ellison
• Strong CEOs set direction rather than following external pressures, regardless of whether they're leading public or private companies
• Building a business in public is similar to building products in public - criticism and feedback are valuable inputs but don't dictate strategy
• Public market pressure can actually benefit companies by providing useful feedback, as seen with Meta's mobile pivot and operational efficiency
• Raising venture capital carries an implicit promise to at least attempt to take the company public eventually
• Public markets provide "strong price signals" that private markets cannot, establishing fair values for companies
• Providing liquidity to investors and employees is a fundamental responsibility of venture-backed founders

Timestamp: [11:28-21:06]

People:

• Warren Buffett - Referenced for his quote about markets being "a voting machine in the short term and a weighing machine in the long term"
• Jeff Bezos - Cited as an example of a founder who went public early and maintained his vision
• Steve Jobs - Cited as an example of a founder who went public early and maintained his vision
• Bill Gates - Cited as an example of a founder who went public early and maintained his vision
• Larry Ellison - Cited as an example of a founder who went public early and maintained his vision
• Mark Zuckerberg - Referenced as a leader who benefited from public market feedback
• Collison brothers - Mentioned for their perspective on not wanting Wall Street analysts to influence their business decisions

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's company, trading at "a billion and a half" with much higher revenue than comparably valued AI startups
• Stripe - Mentioned as a canonical example of delaying going public
• Meta - Used as an example of a company that benefited from public market pressure
• Databricks - Referenced as a company making large R&D investments that might be challenging in public markets
• Rippling - Referenced alongside Databricks as making significant product investments
• Morgan Stanley - Mentioned in context of junior analysts potentially offering unwanted business advice
• Kleiner Perkins - Venture capital firm where the interviewer (Jubin) is a partner

Concepts:

• SaaS (Software as a Service) - Referenced in context of building products in public
• IPO (Initial Public Offering) - The process of a company going public, which Spencer did with Amplitude at $150M revenue
• Series A - Early venture funding round that Spencer argues creates an implicit promise to attempt an IPO
• Sarbanes-Oxley - Regulatory framework mentioned as increasing compliance overhead for public companies
• Secondaries - Alternative liquidity mechanisms mentioned as inferior to public markets

Timestamp: [11:28-21:06]

When discussing the bull and bear cases of being an incumbent in the AI era, Spencer shares his fundamental belief about Amplitude's success:

Spencer acknowledges the existential threat that faces all incumbents - as organizations grow larger, their ability to innovate typically slows down. Despite having more resources, larger companies can only focus on a few things at once.

He doesn't take Amplitude's position for granted, recognizing the possibility that "some innovative new company will come along and build something better and faster than us and take the mantle and the early lead that we've built now."

Spencer reveals what he believes is Amplitude's true competitive advantage:

This perspective drives his management approach - constantly focusing on removing impediments to innovation, ensuring they have top talent, and structuring the organization to ship quickly.

Timestamp: [21:14-24:40]

When asked if innovation slowdown actually keeps him up at night, Spencer answers emphatically:

He points out the common trajectory for SaaS companies:

Spencer explains several factors that contribute to this slowdown:

To combat this, Spencer initiated a hands-on approach that's unusual for a CEO of a public company:

He shares a specific example where this direct involvement helped fix a problematic user experience:

Spencer explains how this complexity emerged organically without anyone taking ownership of the full experience:

Working with his Chief Product Officer, he drove significant changes over several months, simplifying the process to focus on the core user needs:

Timestamp: [24:40-27:04]

Spencer reveals a powerful personal management technique he's been using for years:

When looking back at this document spanning years, Spencer identifies a persistent theme:

This insight connects directly to why founders often leave their companies around the 10-year mark:

The spreadsheet serves as Spencer's mechanism for managing this frustration:

Spencer explains the psychological benefit:

During the interview, Spencer even pulls up his spreadsheet and shares some recent entries, which primarily revolve around executive feedback, building trust and vulnerability, accountability, and leadership team dynamics.

Timestamp: [27:04-31:40]

• Innovation is the primary driver of long-term growth, especially in categories that still have significant untapped potential
• As organizations grow, their ability to innovate naturally slows despite having more resources
• Amplitude's core advantage is building "a machine that can out-innovate any competition," not any particular product insight
• The quality of a product correlates with the number of iterations, making speed of shipping crucial for innovation
• Most SaaS companies follow a pattern where innovation slows between $100M-$1B as they focus on scaling what works
• Signup processes often grow complex over time as different teams add requirements without anyone owning the holistic experience
• Founder frustrations typically center around people management and the difficulty of driving change through increasingly complex organizations
• Writing down sources of stress in a regular practice helps executives manage their psychology and separate themselves from the stress
• Most executive stress comes from people interactions that block desired changes from happening as quickly as hoped
• Direct CEO involvement in product decisions can help cut through organizational complexity and realign with user needs

Timestamp: [21:14-31:40]

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's company, positioned as an incumbent in the analytics space facing the AI transition
• Sketch - Referenced as an example of an incumbent that was disrupted
• Figma - Mentioned as a disruptor that overtook Sketch in the design tool space
• Canva - Referenced as a potential disruptor to Figma
• Optimizely - Mentioned as a peer company where founders departed around the 10-year mark
• Mixpanel - Mentioned as a peer company where founders departed around the 10-year mark
• PagerDuty - Mentioned as a peer company where founders departed around the 10-year mark
• Intercom - Mentioned twice: as a company doing a dramatic "refounding" and as a peer where founders left

People:

• Francois - Spencer's Chief Product Officer who helped implement the signup flow improvements

Concepts:

• Innovation Velocity - The speed at which a company can develop and release new products/features
• Iteration Speed - The concept that faster iteration cycles lead to higher quality products
• Founder Departure - The pattern of founders leaving successful companies around the 10-year mark
• Stress Management - Spencer's technique of writing down stressors in a spreadsheet to gain control
• Product Complexity - How products naturally grow more complex over time without intentional simplification
• Organizational Dilution - The phenomenon where responsibility and decision-making become distributed across teams, making holistic improvements harder

Timestamp: [21:14-31:40]

When asked about the sources of stress in his life, Spencer reveals the deeply intertwined relationship between his work and personal life:

This response leads Spencer to share a profound insight into his early mindset. As a 22-year-old entrepreneur in 2011, he created a mental model of "the ultimate founder" - an almost monastic archetype he aspired to embody:

Spencer continues laying out this extreme vision:

He viewed this archetype as a competitive advantage:

Spencer even references Peter Thiel's observation that CEO pay is inversely correlated with company success:

Timestamp: [31:46-35:15]

Fourteen years after formulating his "ultimate founder" model, Spencer reflects on how his perspective has evolved:

With this success has come a more balanced outlook on life:

Spencer describes this shift as a necessary evolution:

He shares a telling observation about how he and other early Amplitude team members have changed:

Spencer recognizes the need for continued adaptation:

Yet there's still a hint of the original founder mentality when he jokes:

Timestamp: [35:15-36:58]

• For Spencer, work has historically been the primary source of stress in his life, with personal matters causing stress mainly when they take focus away from work
• At 22, Spencer created a mental model of the "ultimate founder" that emphasized extreme dedication, including:
• No commitments outside of work (family, hobbies, etc.)
• No attachment to money or lifestyle
• Obsessive curiosity about the business
• Willingness to work for long periods without success
• No ego attachment to outcomes
• This intense focus served as a competitive advantage in the early years of building Amplitude
• After 14 years, Spencer has evolved to recognize that sustainability requires more balance
• Making space for personal life (family, living situation) enables longer-term commitment to the business
• The transition from 20s to 30s naturally brings a shift from pathological work focus to more sustainable patterns
• There's a tension between needing this evolution personally while still valuing the intensity of younger team members

Timestamp: [31:46-36:58]

People:

• Peter Thiel - Cited for his observation that CEO pay is inversely correlated with company success
• Curtis - Early Amplitude team member mentioned as having similar evolution in work habits
• Jeffrey - Early Amplitude team member mentioned as having similar evolution in work habits

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's company that has grown beyond his "wildest dreams"

Concepts:

• Ultimate Founder Archetype - Spencer's mental model of the ideal founder characteristics that maximize chances of success
• Founder Evolution - The natural progression from intense single-mindedness to a more balanced, sustainable approach
• Work-Life Integration - Spencer's view that personal matters primarily cause stress when they divert focus from work
• Founder Psychology - The willingness to reshape one's identity and lifestyle to maximize company-building success
• Sustainability - The shift from short-term intensity to long-term balance that enables decades of leadership

Timestamp: [31:46-36:58]

When asked about aspects of his "ultimate founder" identity he's been willing to give up, Spencer reflects on how his relationship with money and comfort has evolved:

Spencer describes his previous mindset as almost religious in nature:

He acknowledges this approach was partly about setting an example:

But ultimately, Spencer came to see this extreme position as counterproductive:

He characterizes his overall life shift:

When asked if he genuinely enjoys this additional 25% of space in his life, Spencer offers a nuanced response:

Despite this added complexity, Spencer sees the balance as necessary for longevity:

Timestamp: [37:06-44:04]

When asked if he felt misunderstood by others for his intense focus, Spencer first highlights his fortune in finding a supportive partner:

He then reflects on how his singular focus appeared to others in his early days:

This singular focus earned him a nickname among his MIT peers:

But Spencer's authentic response to this potential social pressure reveals his comfort with his identity:

He connects this focus to his natural personality:

Spencer shares a poignant insight from conversations with his wife:

This segment reveals how Spencer has not only maintained his core identity despite success, but has found ways to channel his natural disposition into meaningful work while gradually making space for other aspects of life.

Timestamp: [44:04-46:40]

• Spencer shifted from an extreme "religion of not making money" (paying himself nothing, then 30-45K) to a more balanced approach (now 450K, still in bottom 10% of comparable CEOs)
• He views his early extreme compensation stance as "pathological" in retrospect, recognizing it limited his ability to save time and enjoy certain comforts
• While still dedicating the majority of his life (70%) to work, Spencer has opened space for family, relationships, and other interests
• He acknowledges the cognitive simplicity of being a "zealot" with singular focus (comparing it to Steve Jobs' black turtleneck eliminating decision-making)
• The shift toward balance isn't about enjoying work less, but about creating sustainability for a "many more decades" journey
• In his early 20s, Spencer would compare his situation to much worse circumstances (like being drafted for Vietnam) to maintain perspective and focus
• Finding a partner who values his work-focused identity has been crucial to maintaining his authentic self
• Spencer was nicknamed "Startup Spencer" by MIT peers because of his singular conversational focus
• His naturally "obsessive personality" found a productive outlet in company building
• The philosophy of "if we're going to be stressed and anxious anyway, might as well be about something worthwhile" captures his pragmatic approach to channeling natural traits

Timestamp: [37:06-46:40]

People:

• Steve Jobs - Referenced for his black turtleneck uniform that eliminated decision-making

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's company that he dedicates the majority of his life to building
• MIT - Where Spencer's peers nicknamed him "Startup Spencer" due to his singular focus

Concepts:

• Founder Compensation - Spencer's evolution from paying himself nothing to a still-modest 450K salary
• Work-Life Balance - The shift from 95% work focus to 70%, creating space for family and other interests
• Decision Fatigue - The cognitive benefit of eliminating choices (like Jobs' uniform) to focus energy
• Sustainability - Building a life structure that can be maintained for decades rather than years
• Comparative Suffering - Spencer's early technique of comparing his situation to worse circumstances (like war) to maintain perspective
• Authentic Identity - Maintaining true self while adjusting specific behaviors for long-term sustainability
• Founder Psychology - The benefit of having an "obsessive personality" when building a company

Timestamp: [37:06-46:40]

Spencer opens up about his personal background, revealing how his natural tendencies have shaped his approach to work:

When asked if his parents recognized these traits, Spencer confirms they did and adds that his parents share similar characteristics - suggesting his intense focus is partly inherited.

The conversation shifts to family planning, with Spencer confirming he and his wife Ann plan to have children eventually. When asked if he worries about the potential conflicts between family and work, he responds candidly:

He acknowledges the fundamental tension that exists between career and family:

Spencer critiques what he sees as a harmful modern narrative:

He offers a clear-eyed assessment of the resource constraints everyone faces:

Spencer references Ruth Bader Ginsburg's wisdom:

Despite these concerns, Spencer expresses confidence in navigating these choices with his wife:

Timestamp: [46:46-50:10]

When asked if he would change anything about his "ultimate founder" archetype now that he has 14 years of experience, Spencer stands firmly by his original model:

However, Spencer identifies a crucial transition he wishes he had prepared for better:

He explains this missed opportunity:

When asked if he has a new archetype for himself as a public company executive, Spencer offers a striking insight:

He explains this provocative statement by contrasting founder and executive leadership styles:

Spencer references Michael Jordan as an exemplar of this approach:

But as a company scales, this approach becomes impossible:

This forces a fundamental shift in leadership style:

Spencer provides another example around compensation:

Timestamp: [50:10-55:17]

• Spencer has natural tendencies toward intense focus that he describes as "on the spectrum," inherited from parents with similar traits
• Despite planning to have children eventually, he worries about balancing family and work responsibilities
• Spencer rejects the myth that there are no trade-offs between career and family - he believes time and focus are fundamentally limited resources requiring choices
• He stands by his original "ultimate founder" archetype as still accurate after 14 years of experience
• The transition from founder to large company executive represents a major psychological shift that most founders are unprepared for
• As companies scale, executives must move from "leading from the front" to "deploying resources and evaluating impact"
• This transition often requires becoming "the person you hate" - moving from being in the trenches to evaluating others' work
• Key executive responsibilities like compensation decisions cannot be delegated, even if founders would prefer to avoid them
• The Michael Jordan leadership model (never asking others to do what you wouldn't) becomes impossible to maintain at scale
• Finding a partner with aligned values and expectations is crucial for navigating work-family tensions

Timestamp: [46:46-55:17]

People:

• Ann - Spencer's wife of nearly 10 years who values his work-focused nature
• Ruth Bader Ginsburg - Quoted for her perspective that "you can have it all, but you can't have it all at once"
• Michael Jordan - Referenced for his leadership philosophy of not asking teammates to do what he wouldn't do himself
• Sterling - Spencer's 5-year-old nephew (his brother's child)

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's company, now with thousands of customers and multiple products

Concepts:

• Neurodiversity - Spencer references traits "on the spectrum" that contribute to his intense focus
• Work-Life Tension - The fundamental trade-offs required between career and family responsibilities
• Resource Allocation - The limited nature of time, energy and focus requiring explicit choices
• Leadership Transition - The shift from founder-style "leading from the front" to executive-style "deploying resources"
• Compensation Philosophy - The critical role of CEOs in determining pay structures that reflect company values
• Founder-to-Executive Evolution - The psychological transformation required when scaling from startup to large company

Timestamp: [46:46-55:17]

Spencer opens up about his personal background, revealing how his natural tendencies have shaped his approach to work:

When asked if his parents recognized these traits, Spencer confirms they did and adds that his parents share similar characteristics - suggesting his intense focus is partly inherited.

The conversation shifts to family planning, with Spencer confirming he and his wife Ann plan to have children eventually. When asked if he worries about the potential conflicts between family and work, he responds candidly:

He acknowledges the fundamental tension that exists between career and family:

Spencer critiques what he sees as a harmful modern narrative:

He offers a clear-eyed assessment of the resource constraints everyone faces:

Spencer references Ruth Bader Ginsburg's wisdom:

Despite these concerns, Spencer expresses confidence in navigating these choices with his wife:

Timestamp: [46:46-50:10]

When asked if he would change anything about his "ultimate founder" archetype now that he has 14 years of experience, Spencer stands firmly by his original model:

However, Spencer identifies a crucial transition he wishes he had prepared for better:

He explains this missed opportunity:

When asked if he has a new archetype for himself as a public company executive, Spencer offers a striking insight:

He explains this provocative statement by contrasting founder and executive leadership styles:

Spencer references Michael Jordan as an exemplar of this approach:

But as a company scales, this approach becomes impossible:

This forces a fundamental shift in leadership style:

Spencer provides another example around compensation:

Timestamp: [50:10-55:17]

• Spencer has natural tendencies toward intense focus that he describes as "on the spectrum," inherited from parents with similar traits
• Despite planning to have children eventually, he worries about balancing family and work responsibilities
• Spencer rejects the myth that there are no trade-offs between career and family - he believes time and focus are fundamentally limited resources requiring choices
• He stands by his original "ultimate founder" archetype as still accurate after 14 years of experience
• The transition from founder to large company executive represents a major psychological shift that most founders are unprepared for
• As companies scale, executives must move from "leading from the front" to "deploying resources and evaluating impact"
• This transition often requires becoming "the person you hate" - moving from being in the trenches to evaluating others' work
• Key executive responsibilities like compensation decisions cannot be delegated, even if founders would prefer to avoid them
• The Michael Jordan leadership model (never asking others to do what you wouldn't) becomes impossible to maintain at scale
• Finding a partner with aligned values and expectations is crucial for navigating work-family tensions

Timestamp: [46:46-55:17]

People:

• Ann - Spencer's wife of nearly 10 years who values his work-focused nature
• Ruth Bader Ginsburg - Quoted for her perspective that "you can have it all, but you can't have it all at once"
• Michael Jordan - Referenced for his leadership philosophy of not asking teammates to do what he wouldn't do himself
• Sterling - Spencer's 5-year-old nephew (his brother's child)

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's company, now with thousands of customers and multiple products

Concepts:

• Neurodiversity - Spencer references traits "on the spectrum" that contribute to his intense focus
• Work-Life Tension - The fundamental trade-offs required between career and family responsibilities
• Resource Allocation - The limited nature of time, energy and focus requiring explicit choices
• Leadership Transition - The shift from founder-style "leading from the front" to executive-style "deploying resources"
• Compensation Philosophy - The critical role of CEOs in determining pay structures that reflect company values
• Founder-to-Executive Evolution - The psychological transformation required when scaling from startup to large company

Timestamp: [46:46-55:17]

Continuing his reflection on the transition from founder to large company executive, Spencer draws a fascinating historical parallel to kingship roles across societies:

Spencer then connects these ancient leadership archetypes to the modern CEO role:

This structured approach represents a significant shift from the early-stage founder mindset:

When asked if the types of problems on his worry list have changed over the years, Spencer reveals how his approach to leadership challenges has evolved:

He shares a specific technique he now employs as "chief justice":

Spencer observes that 90% of the time, the complainer hasn't actually had the direct conversation, revealing how this approach effectively redirects interpersonal issues.

Despite these changes in leadership style, Spencer notes that the fundamental business challenges remain consistent:

When asked which of the three leadership roles he finds most challenging, Spencer responds:

Timestamp: [55:16-1:02:56]

When asked if fatigue explains why founders typically leave after 10 years, Spencer's response is immediate:

However, he quickly adds that his own experience differs:

Spencer credits his team with making this sustainable approach possible:

He pinpoints a key error that leads to founder burnout:

This transition brings unexpected benefits:

Spencer distinguishes between setting the standard and personally driving execution:

This realization has allowed Spencer to create a more sustainable leadership approach capable of spanning decades rather than years - avoiding the fate of many founders who burn out after a decade.

Timestamp: [1:02:56-1:04:37]

• Spencer identifies three core CEO roles analogous to ancient kingship functions: chief general (strategy), chief justice (dispute resolution), and chief priest (inspiration)
• The transition from scrappy founder leading a mission to executive leading a "kingdom" requires fundamentally different skills and mindsets
• While leadership approaches must evolve dramatically, the core business challenges remain consistent: build great products and convince customers to use them
• Spencer has developed specific techniques for the "chief justice" role, such as redirecting complaints by asking "What did they say when you gave them that feedback?"
• Leaders naturally gravitate toward certain aspects of leadership - Spencer enjoys the "general" and "priest" roles but finds the "justice" role more challenging
• Founder burnout after 10 years often stems from failure to transition from "leading from the front" to leveraging others
• Creating space for recovery (reducing from 95% work focus to 70%) contributes to sustainability
• Leaders must distinguish between setting the standard (which remains their responsibility) and personally driving execution (which can be delegated)
• Working through others creates leverage that makes leadership more sustainable in the long term
• Transitioning from startup to scale-up involves a loss of the early "fanaticism" that some founders miss

Timestamp: [55:16-1:04:37]

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's company, now in its 14th year with a full executive team

Concepts:

• Three Leadership Archetypes - The general (strategy), justice (arbitration), and priest (inspiration) roles adapted from ancient kingship
• Leadership Transition - The psychological and practical shift from founder to large company executive
• Feedback Redirection - Spencer's technique of asking "What did they say when you gave them that feedback?" to handle complaints
• Business Fundamentals - The consistent core challenges of building products and convincing customers that persist regardless of company size
• Founder Burnout - The phenomenon of founders leaving around the 10-year mark due to exhaustion
• Leadership Leverage - The increased impact possible when working through others rather than personally driving execution
• Standard Setting vs. Execution - The distinction between establishing expectations and personally implementing them
• Organizational Dilution - The natural decrease in "fanaticism" that occurs as companies scale and ownership becomes more dispersed

Timestamp: [55:16-1:04:37]

When asked about the tangible tradeoffs of becoming his "ultimate founder" archetype, Spencer first reflects on the financial sacrifices:

Remarkably, Spencer claims this didn't bother him personally:

He maintained perspective through comparative thinking:

However, his career choice did impact his family, particularly his Chinese-Malaysian mother:

The sacrifice that Spencer feels most acutely wasn't financial, but social:

When asked if he would deliberately decline social invitations:

Spencer also temporarily avoided romantic relationships:

He shares a revealing anecdote about a date where he tried to avoid talking about work:

This experience helped him realize how deeply his identity had become intertwined with his work:

Timestamp: [1:04:38-1:10:17]

After struggling with relationships, Spencer shares how he ultimately found a partner who accepted his intense focus:

This relationship has now lasted nearly a decade:

When asked about health as another potential tradeoff, Spencer acknowledges initially neglecting it:

However, he eventually recognized this approach was counterproductive:

Spencer frames this realization in terms of optimization:

Regarding his earlier comments about friendship, Spencer clarifies his feelings:

He shares a touching example of how his limited capacity for friendship impacted specific relationships:

Timestamp: [1:10:17-1:13:06]

When asked what has most surprised him about his journey, Spencer expresses genuine amazement at Amplitude's success:

He reflects on what he might have done differently:

However, Spencer emphasizes that these regrets are minor compared to the overall journey:

He concludes with a sense of wonder at how his bet on becoming the "ultimate founder" paid off:

Timestamp: [1:13:06-1:14:52]

• Spencer "rewired his brain" not to care about money or material possessions as a young founder, maintaining perspective by comparing his life to much harder circumstances
• The trade-off he feels most acutely wasn't financial but social—missing the opportunity to build deep friendships in his 20s
• His work identity became so deeply ingrained that even when deliberately trying not to discuss it on dates, he was still perceived as career-obsessed
• Finding a partner who valued his intensity and commitment to work came unexpectedly and has been sustained for nearly a decade
• Initial neglect of health (poor diet, lack of sleep) proved counterproductive—he eventually realized taking care of physical wellbeing actually improves work output
• Spencer feels "bad" about not reciprocating the care some friends showed him, but doesn't regret the choice as it enabled Amplitude's success
• He remains amazed at Amplitude's success, having expected to run "some crappy little tiny business" rather than a category-leading public company
• In retrospect, some "pathological" behaviors like extreme self-sacrifice on compensation didn't contribute as much to success as he thought they would
• Reading essays by figures like Paul Graham helped shape his founder archetype, but the real-world success exceeded his expectations
• The benefits of his extreme founder approach have far outweighed the costs from his perspective

Timestamp: [1:04:38-1:14:52]

People:

• Ann - Spencer's wife of nearly 10 years who values his work-focused nature
• David Chen - A close friend from school who remained gracious despite Spencer's limited capacity for friendship
• Paul Graham - Writer whose essays on startups influenced Spencer's founder archetype

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's analytics company that grew beyond his expectations to become a category leader

Concepts:

• Comparative Perspective - Spencer's technique of comparing his situation to worse circumstances (conscripts, monks) to maintain contentment
• Work-Identity Fusion - How deeply Spencer's work became intertwined with his identity, affecting all aspects of life
• Founder Tradeoffs - The specific sacrifices Spencer made in social life, health, and financial comfort to build his company
• Relationship Compatibility - Finding a partner who values rather than resents intense work focus
• Health Optimization - The realization that physical wellbeing actually improves rather than detracts from work performance
• Cultural Expectations - The pressure from Spencer's Chinese-Malaysian family background regarding career prestige
• Friendship Reciprocity - The imbalance in give-and-take that occurred in Spencer's friendships due to work focus

Timestamp: [1:04:38-1:14:52]

As the interview winds down, Spencer enthusiastically responds when asked if Amplitude is hiring:

He specifically highlights one area where he's personally involved in recruitment:

Spencer emphasizes that this is an area he's "personally trying to figure out as CEO," underscoring the strategic importance of AI capabilities to Amplitude's future.

Timestamp: [1:14:54-1:15:42]

When asked what the word "grit" means to him, Spencer offers a profound definition that encapsulates his founder philosophy:

He suggests this insight isn't unique to him:

Spencer then articulates what he believes distinguishes truly exceptional founders:

He concludes with a reflection on his own radical approach:

Timestamp: [1:15:42-1:16:54]

• Amplitude is actively recruiting talent at the intersection of AI and large data sets, an area where Spencer is personally involved
• Grit, as defined by Spencer, means willingness to "endure pain for a long period of time in the service of something greater"
• The difference between moderate success and extraordinary achievement often lies in completely reframing your identity rather than making incremental adjustments
• Spencer's approach involved taking grit "to the extreme" - a radical commitment that proved successful
• True grit involves a willingness to go without pay, face failure, and maintain obsessive curiosity "to the exclusion of all else"
• The fundamental wisdom about grit is widely available, but few people are willing to embrace it at the level required for exceptional outcomes

Timestamp: [1:14:54-1:16:54]

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's analytics company that is actively hiring AI talent for large data set applications
• Kleiner Perkins - Venture capital firm producing the Grit podcast, where Jubin is a partner

Concepts:

• Grit - The willingness to endure pain for extended periods in service of something greater
• AI for Data Analytics - The emerging field where Amplitude is focusing recruitment efforts
• Identity Reframing - Spencer's approach of completely reshaping self-concept rather than making incremental changes
• Extreme Commitment - The willingness to take principles to their logical extreme rather than making partial adjustments

Timestamp: [1:14:54-1:17:10]

Congratulations on scrolling all the way through Spencer Skates' wisdom! If Spencer were here, he'd say you just displayed the kind of persistence that builds billion-dollar companies.

In a world of TL;DR, you chose the path of deeper understanding. That's not just reading—that's analytics.

Like Spencer's approach to innovation, you didn't settle for the highlight reel. You went deep into the system architecture, explored every insight, and processed all the data points.

Whether you're building products, leading teams, or preparing for your own founder journey, remember:

Your scrolling finger might need a rest, but your brain is now operating at 95% Spencer capacity.

Thanks for reading. Now go redefine some categories!

P.S. If you're at the bleeding edge of AI and large datasets, Spencer wants to talk to you. Like, personally.