Welcome to Grit, where we go beyond the highlight reel and explore the personal and professional challenges of building history-making companies. Today we have Spencer Skates, the CEO and co-founder of Amplitude, who turned a data problem into a billion-dollar business when he was just 22 years old coming out of MIT.

In 2021, Spencer took Amplitude public, and now the platform is widely used. More interestingly, Spencer has become very philosophical and thoughtful about his approach to being a CEO and founder.

Timestamp: [00:43-01:26]

Spencer reflects on how technology cycles come in waves - from cloud applications and SaaS to big data, mobile, crypto, and now AI. Despite the current focus on AI, he notes that the intersection of AI and data analytics remains surprisingly underdeveloped.

"Technology cycles always come in waves. You had cloud applications and SaaS, you had big data, you had mobile... and then more recently you've had crypto, and then most recently of course you'd have AI."

Spencer believes there's an exciting opportunity in this space, even though it's still early days. When asked if he worries about an AI upstart disrupting Amplitude's category, he acknowledges the concern but points out a key advantage:

"Chat GPT, all the text-based models, midjourney, all the image-based models - they're all based on open source data sets... When you start thinking about user data or customer data, there's only a few companies that have large data sets on that, and we're one of them."

Amplitude possesses trillions of data points across billions of users - a proprietary dataset that gives them a competitive edge in developing AI capabilities for analytics. Spencer reveals they acquired Command AI last year and are working on an agent to help customers understand, explore, and act on their user data.

Timestamp: [01:26-05:48]

While Amplitude has a significant data advantage as an incumbent, Spencer candidly acknowledges they also face an architectural disadvantage - 13 years of "baggage" built on a tech stack that might look very different in an AI-first future.

"As the incumbent you have a data advantage. However, as the incumbent you have an architectural disadvantage because of the 13 years of baggage that you've been building on a tech stack that might look very different in the future."

Spencer describes the challenge of leading a $300 million public company while trying to innovate:

"Running a $300 million public company, my brain is pulled in all sorts of directions. You gotta make sure we have good quarters, report on the results, manage the organization. It's very hard for me to be singularly focused in a way an early-stage company can be singularly focused on solving a single problem."

Timestamp: [05:03-05:48]

When asked about the urgency of "refounding" the company, Spencer explains his approach to driving innovation within a larger organization: creating insulated teams dedicated to new initiatives.

"The way you drive innovation in a larger organization is you have a team that's insulated from the rest of the company that's focused and dedicated to it. It's not like we're trying to throw out our existing business or redo that or rebuild that."

Spencer describes his strategy of finding founders working on relevant problems, acquiring them into Amplitude, and protecting their focus. He shares a key insight into why insulation is necessary:

"Whenever you have a hot new initiative - AI agents in our case - every single existing person in the company is like 'oh I want to be part of the hot new thing.' You have meetings with sales people and marketers and ops people and finance people... They want to be part of the hot new thing."

To maintain focus, Spencer has implemented strict boundaries - like limiting access to innovation teams to scheduled bi-weekly meetings:

"There's a once every two weeks meeting and other than that you're not allowed to access that group. Don't pull them in anything because you'll be distracted with all this existing company stuff."

Timestamp: [05:48-08:49]

Spencer addresses the friction created when bringing in new talent to work on innovative projects while existing employees feel left out. He shares a revealing anecdote about dressing up as "old man analytics" for Halloween - a joke that was "a little too on the nose" and upset some team members.

To manage these tensions, Spencer emphasizes that analytics remains Amplitude's core identity and competitive advantage:

"The point that I made to that group though is that analytics is always the core thing at Amplitude. By working on that you are working on the flagship product for the company. It's like if you're at Oracle and you're working on databases - Oracle has never forgotten as a database company."

He reinforces this message by connecting all new initiatives back to that core strength:

"The reason we'll be great there [in AI] is because we have great data and great analytics, not the other way around. There's a tension of working on the hot new thing, but look - this thing has no traction, no success to speak of. You're going from working on a $300 million business to working on a zero dollar business."

Spencer concludes by acknowledging there are tradeoffs, but emphasizes there are "really exciting attractive things of working on the most important piece of Amplitude's success."

Timestamp: [08:49-11:22]

• Technology cycles come in waves (cloud/SaaS, big data, mobile, crypto, AI), with AI still being very early in the data analytics space
• Incumbents like Amplitude have a data advantage (trillions of proprietary data points) but face architectural disadvantages (legacy tech stack)
• Innovation within large organizations requires insulating dedicated teams from day-to-day company operations
• Preventing "hot new thing" syndrome requires strict boundaries between innovation teams and the rest of the company
• Maintaining core identity while innovating is crucial - for Amplitude, analytics remains the foundation of their competitive advantage
• There's inherent tension between existing product teams and innovation teams that requires careful management

Timestamp: [01:26-11:22]

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Digital analytics platform company co-founded by Spencer Skates
• MIT - Where Spencer Skates graduated from before founding Amplitude at age 22
• Command AI - Company acquired by Amplitude to work on AI initiatives
• Oracle - Referenced as an example of a company that maintains its core identity as a database company
• ChatGPT - Referenced as an example of AI models using open source datasets
• Midjourney - Referenced as an example of image-based AI models using open source datasets
• Anthropic - Mentioned in context of a meeting Spencer had just attended

Concepts:

• SaaS (Software as a Service) - Business model where software is licensed on a subscription basis
• Data Analytics - The process of examining data sets to find trends and draw conclusions
• AI Agents - Autonomous AI programs that can perform tasks or make decisions
• Technology Cycles - The pattern of technology evolution through successive waves of innovation

Timestamp: [01:26-11:22]

Spencer discusses the stark contrast between valuations for AI companies versus more established businesses like Amplitude, noting that AI companies are receiving massive premiums despite having much less revenue.

"You'll get companies that'll have a billion dollar plus valuation that will have, you know, 10-20 million in revenue. And you're just like, 'okay, cool, good luck guys.' You're gonna have to grow 10, 15, 20x just to get to the same place that we already have here at Amplitude."

When asked if this frustrates him, Spencer admits it does "a little bit," but quotes Warren Buffett: "The market's a voting machine in the short term and a weighing machine in the long term." He observes that companies at Amplitude's stage (a few hundred million in revenue) appear particularly undervalued in the current market compared to both early-stage startups and larger public companies.

Spencer also shares that Amplitude went public relatively early at around $150 million in revenue. He argues this was the right call, despite a growing trend of companies like Stripe delaying their IPOs until they reach billions in revenue.

"I think personally that's a mistake. The complaint I always hear is 'oh, the regulators and the bureaucrats will take over,' which is true. You're going to add a lot of regulators and bureaucrats as you go public, but you cannot forget it's not their job to lead the business. It's your job as the CEO, as the founder."

He points to tech legends who went public early and didn't let quarterly pressures dictate their vision:

"Jeff Bezos never let that stop him. Steve Jobs never let that stop him. Gates never did either. Ellison never did either. They all went public relatively early on in the life cycle of their businesses."

Timestamp: [11:28-15:02]

When discussing the leadership challenges of running a public company, Spencer articulates his philosophy with a clear phrase: "Who's leading who." He believes a CEO's primary responsibility is to set direction, not follow external pressures.

"Your job as a CEO is to say 'here's where we're going and why.' And the people who want to follow that can, and the people who don't - that's on them."

Spencer draws an insightful parallel between building products and building businesses in public:

"Since the rise of cloud and SaaS, and in particular for cases like Stripe, you're building [products] in public and you can get criticism from lots of people online about crappy things they love, hate, want to change... That doesn't mean you have to listen to them, but it's input and it's valuable. Building a business in public is no different from that."

He challenges the notion that public markets necessarily degrade a company's ability to execute long-term vision:

"I don't buy the argument that exposing your business to the public markets all of a sudden degrades your ability to lead it. In fact, for great leaders, it should enhance it because now you're getting feedback."

Spencer cites Meta as a prime example where public market pressure actually helped the company:

"Zuckerberg got pressure from public markets at different points in time - first when they first went out in terms of revenue growth and their ability to catch the mobile wave, and then secondly more recently in getting more operationally efficient. I think that was actually a good thing for them to get that feedback."

He concludes with a powerful comparison:

"We're so used to building products in public where anyone on the internet can use it, take it apart, criticize it, copy it, change it, whatever. Building a business is no different. You're just opening up the books and your kimono to everyone out there. And now you have to be able to withstand the feedback and criticism and opinions that come along with it."

Timestamp: [15:02-18:41]

When asked about the concept of markets being "open" or "closed" for IPOs, Spencer shares his "old school" perspective on the implicit promises made when raising venture capital.

"An implicit promise you are making when you raise venture capital, particularly at a Series A, is that you at least try to take the company public at some point. Not to say the vast majority never go public - they die or get acquired or whatever - but at least you'll take the shot at it."

Spencer argues that this commitment to providing liquidity is fundamental to the venture capital ecosystem:

"If you're going to go do that and you want to be part of the venture high-growth ecosystem, part of the implicit promise you're making to the new owners of your company (aka venture capital) is that you're at least going to try to take the company public at some point in the future so that they can get liquidity and receive a return on their investment."

He emphasizes the importance of public markets in establishing fair prices for companies:

"We have these wonderful systems - exchanges that trade in many things including equity for public companies. By trading it, you're getting a fair price on that equity. Without doing that, how do you know that the price is correct for ownership of your company? It's made up."

Spencer points out the distortions that can happen in private markets:

"You guys see it at Kleiner Perkins where you're just like, 'Hey man, if I could sell equity at some crazy valuation someone just did a round at, I would,' because you know that there's a strong view that that's not going to materialize. You don't get strong price signals without [public markets]."

He concludes with his foundational belief about the responsibilities of venture-backed founders:

"If you're playing that game where you're a high-growth technology company raising venture capital and giving out equity and options to employees, you're making an implicit promise to get your company liquid at some point."

Timestamp: [18:41-21:06]

• AI companies are currently receiving valuation premiums of 30%+ compared to established software companies at similar revenue levels
• Companies at the "few hundred million dollar" revenue stage appear particularly undervalued in the current market compared to both early-stage startups and larger public companies
• Going public early (like Amplitude at $150M revenue) follows the pattern of tech legends like Bezos, Jobs, Gates, and Ellison
• Strong CEOs set direction rather than following external pressures, regardless of whether they're leading public or private companies
• Building a business in public is similar to building products in public - criticism and feedback are valuable inputs but don't dictate strategy
• Public market pressure can actually benefit companies by providing useful feedback, as seen with Meta's mobile pivot and operational efficiency
• Raising venture capital carries an implicit promise to at least attempt to take the company public eventually
• Public markets provide "strong price signals" that private markets cannot, establishing fair values for companies
• Providing liquidity to investors and employees is a fundamental responsibility of venture-backed founders

Timestamp: [11:28-21:06]

People:

• Warren Buffett - Referenced for his quote about markets being "a voting machine in the short term and a weighing machine in the long term"
• Jeff Bezos - Cited as an example of a founder who went public early and maintained his vision
• Steve Jobs - Cited as an example of a founder who went public early and maintained his vision
• Bill Gates - Cited as an example of a founder who went public early and maintained his vision
• Larry Ellison - Cited as an example of a founder who went public early and maintained his vision
• Mark Zuckerberg - Referenced as a leader who benefited from public market feedback
• Collison brothers - Mentioned for their perspective on not wanting Wall Street analysts to influence their business decisions

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's company, trading at "a billion and a half" with much higher revenue than comparably valued AI startups
• Stripe - Mentioned as a canonical example of delaying going public
• Meta - Used as an example of a company that benefited from public market pressure
• Databricks - Referenced as a company making large R&D investments that might be challenging in public markets
• Rippling - Referenced alongside Databricks as making significant product investments
• Morgan Stanley - Mentioned in context of junior analysts potentially offering unwanted business advice
• Kleiner Perkins - Venture capital firm where the interviewer (Jubin) is a partner

Concepts:

• SaaS (Software as a Service) - Referenced in context of building products in public
• IPO (Initial Public Offering) - The process of a company going public, which Spencer did with Amplitude at $150M revenue
• Series A - Early venture funding round that Spencer argues creates an implicit promise to attempt an IPO
• Sarbanes-Oxley - Regulatory framework mentioned as increasing compliance overhead for public companies
• Secondaries - Alternative liquidity mechanisms mentioned as inferior to public markets

Timestamp: [11:28-21:06]

When discussing the bull and bear cases of being an incumbent in the AI era, Spencer shares his fundamental belief about Amplitude's success:

"One of the things that I have always said in running Amplitude is that innovation is the biggest driver of long-term growth because I think the vast majority of our category still has yet to be built."

Spencer acknowledges the existential threat that faces all incumbents - as organizations grow larger, their ability to innovate typically slows down. Despite having more resources, larger companies can only focus on a few things at once.

He doesn't take Amplitude's position for granted, recognizing the possibility that "some innovative new company will come along and build something better and faster than us and take the mantle and the early lead that we've built now."

Spencer reveals what he believes is Amplitude's true competitive advantage:

"I think of Amplitude's core advantage is not that we had any amazing insight about the product or the market or the data architecture. It's that we built a machine that can out-innovate any of the competition out there. We ended up winning in a very crowded market as a result."

This perspective drives his management approach - constantly focusing on removing impediments to innovation, ensuring they have top talent, and structuring the organization to ship quickly.

"It's been a controversial thing since start. People like, 'Oh, ship fast that means low quality.' It's like, no, no - shipping fast means you get through more iterations, and number of iterations is the best predictor of quality for any process."

Timestamp: [21:14-24:40]

When asked if innovation slowdown actually keeps him up at night, Spencer answers emphatically:

"It does. It does. It does. Especially as you get larger as an organization and things naturally slow down."

He points out the common trajectory for SaaS companies:

"The stereotype for most SaaS companies between 100 million and a billion is that the innovation slows. You have a thing that's working - just do that and more and more scale. You get to a billion and nobody wants to rock the boat."

Spencer explains several factors that contribute to this slowdown:

"The larger an org gets... ownership gets diluted. You get more complexity and constraints, and so it's incredibly hard to keep that innovation muscle on."

To combat this, Spencer initiated a hands-on approach that's unusual for a CEO of a public company:

"I just started this thing up last year which is I do a two-hour product review with the team every week to just be able to cut through with that and just say 'hey, here's where we need to make changes.'"

He shares a specific example where this direct involvement helped fix a problematic user experience:

"We had a 12-step signup process which had all sorts of crazy stuff in it... you had to create a URL for your org and you had to do email verification and you had to fill out like a 15-question questionnaire and all this shit that's like, 'Why are we asking new users to do this? Doesn't make any sense.'"

Spencer explains how this complexity emerged organically without anyone taking ownership of the full experience:

"The reason is 'cause like no one owned that whole experience. It got diluted. It's like, 'Well, this team owns the email verification and we have to do that for security, right?' And 'the marketing team wants all these questions to come in so that their leads are qualified.' But it's like no, no, no - this is not a great signup experience."

Working with his Chief Product Officer, he drove significant changes over several months, simplifying the process to focus on the core user needs:

"I want to get this down to three screens: create a username password, get in your data, see charts. We shouldn't be asking anything else out of users."

Timestamp: [24:40-27:04]

Spencer reveals a powerful personal management technique he's been using for years:

"I have a spreadsheet that every week I write down what stresses me out at the company. Because just putting that to paper and articulating it helps you control it."

When looking back at this document spanning years, Spencer identifies a persistent theme:

"A lot of it's people stuff frankly. But a lot of it is about 'hey, we're not moving fast enough to make this change I think we should be making in the business.' That's the core - if you had to pick out the top theme running through it, that would be the one."

This insight connects directly to why founders often leave their companies around the 10-year mark:

"Among successful companies somewhere around 10 years in, the founders will leave. This happened if I look at the peer group for Amplitude - Optimizely, Mixpanel, PagerDuty... founders all departed. If you talk to them about why that is and you get them to open up about it, it comes back to their frustrations around the people and their frustration with managing such a large organization with all these opinions that conflict with theirs and their ability to affect change through it."

The spreadsheet serves as Spencer's mechanism for managing this frustration:

"One of the tactics I've used... is I'll write down what stresses me out. Most acutely that'll be around some interaction from a people standpoint, and where that blocks me from affecting whatever change I want as fast as I want to."

Spencer explains the psychological benefit:

"Naming something gives you control over it. So by writing it down, the stress goes from floating around in my head to in the spreadsheet on the screen, and that allows it to be managed. It's like, 'Okay, now the spreadsheet has the stress - I don't have the stress.'"

During the interview, Spencer even pulls up his spreadsheet and shares some recent entries, which primarily revolve around executive feedback, building trust and vulnerability, accountability, and leadership team dynamics.

"Writing it down allows me to take the stress out of my head onto the spreadsheet on a screen. And that gives you much greater control over it, and that makes it so that you can compartmentalize that much more effectively."

Timestamp: [27:04-31:40]

• Innovation is the primary driver of long-term growth, especially in categories that still have significant untapped potential
• As organizations grow, their ability to innovate naturally slows despite having more resources
• Amplitude's core advantage is building "a machine that can out-innovate any competition," not any particular product insight
• The quality of a product correlates with the number of iterations, making speed of shipping crucial for innovation
• Most SaaS companies follow a pattern where innovation slows between $100M-$1B as they focus on scaling what works
• Signup processes often grow complex over time as different teams add requirements without anyone owning the holistic experience
• Founder frustrations typically center around people management and the difficulty of driving change through increasingly complex organizations
• Writing down sources of stress in a regular practice helps executives manage their psychology and separate themselves from the stress
• Most executive stress comes from people interactions that block desired changes from happening as quickly as hoped
• Direct CEO involvement in product decisions can help cut through organizational complexity and realign with user needs

Timestamp: [21:14-31:40]

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's company, positioned as an incumbent in the analytics space facing the AI transition
• Sketch - Referenced as an example of an incumbent that was disrupted
• Figma - Mentioned as a disruptor that overtook Sketch in the design tool space
• Canva - Referenced as a potential disruptor to Figma
• Optimizely - Mentioned as a peer company where founders departed around the 10-year mark
• Mixpanel - Mentioned as a peer company where founders departed around the 10-year mark
• PagerDuty - Mentioned as a peer company where founders departed around the 10-year mark
• Intercom - Mentioned twice: as a company doing a dramatic "refounding" and as a peer where founders left

People:

• Francois - Spencer's Chief Product Officer who helped implement the signup flow improvements

Concepts:

• Innovation Velocity - The speed at which a company can develop and release new products/features
• Iteration Speed - The concept that faster iteration cycles lead to higher quality products
• Founder Departure - The pattern of founders leaving successful companies around the 10-year mark
• Stress Management - Spencer's technique of writing down stressors in a spreadsheet to gain control
• Product Complexity - How products naturally grow more complex over time without intentional simplification
• Organizational Dilution - The phenomenon where responsibility and decision-making become distributed across teams, making holistic improvements harder

Timestamp: [21:14-31:40]

When asked about the sources of stress in his life, Spencer reveals the deeply intertwined relationship between his work and personal life:

"Work is by far the stress in my life. This other personal stuff, moving apartment, like that's... the calories that you spend dealing with moving apartments is being dislodged from work. And that stresses you out."

This response leads Spencer to share a profound insight into his early mindset. As a 22-year-old entrepreneur in 2011, he created a mental model of "the ultimate founder" - an almost monastic archetype he aspired to embody:

"Really early on I did this exercise of what would the ultimate founder look like, and here's what I came up with: no other commitments outside of work. So no family, no debt to pay off, no 'hey I have this hobby,' nothing - singularly focused on that. No attachment to money, so willing to live very cheaply and not spend anything."

Spencer continues laying out this extreme vision:

"Obsessively curious about the work, just obsessed with whatever to build a successful business... Willing to work for very long periods of time with no success, and so no ego attachment to the success of what you're building."

He viewed this archetype as a competitive advantage:

"The vast majority of people out there are not willing to change who they are mentally to go do this, and so I'm going to have advantage over them. That was one way I attacked building a company, trying to be almost too extreme on all the dimensions I just outlined."

Spencer even references Peter Thiel's observation that CEO pay is inversely correlated with company success:

"I'm like 'Okay that's easy. Don't pay myself anything.' Okay, to the extent that's causal, that'll help."

Timestamp: [31:46-35:15]

Fourteen years after formulating his "ultimate founder" model, Spencer reflects on how his perspective has evolved:

"Fast forward, we're now 14 years later, and that served me well. I'm more successful than my wildest dreams on Amplitude and what we've built. I'm still shocked that... if you forced me to [think about it], I'd be like 'yeah, that is kind of crazy.' So I'm incredibly lucky with the success of it."

With this success has come a more balanced outlook on life:

"And then you get to this stage and you realize, you know, life is longer. There's other facets to it. I've been almost pathological about building this business for over a decade. And so it's okay to make space for other things, and that makes it sustainable and that allows you to go from doing it for 10 years to doing it for decades."

Spencer describes this shift as a necessary evolution:

"There needs to be space in my life for other things - my wife, my family, my living setup, what have you. And that allows you to sustain even longer."

He shares a telling observation about how he and other early Amplitude team members have changed:

"We were just joking about this - a lot of myself and Curtis and Jeffrey and some of the early folks at Amplitude, it's like yeah, we work way less hard now in our 30s than we did in our 20s back then. And you know, that's part of being more mature and evolving in life."

Spencer recognizes the need for continued adaptation:

"You shouldn't just try to keep being... you have to evolve into what the new thing is in order to make it sustainable and long term."

Yet there's still a hint of the original founder mentality when he jokes:

"We also joked about like, 'Man, we got to get more folks. We got to get more folks who are kind of pathological like we were when we were in our 20s.'"

Timestamp: [35:15-36:58]

• For Spencer, work has historically been the primary source of stress in his life, with personal matters causing stress mainly when they take focus away from work
• At 22, Spencer created a mental model of the "ultimate founder" that emphasized extreme dedication, including:
  • No commitments outside of work (family, hobbies, etc.)
  • No attachment to money or lifestyle
  • Obsessive curiosity about the business
  • Willingness to work for long periods without success
  • No ego attachment to outcomes
• This intense focus served as a competitive advantage in the early years of building Amplitude
• After 14 years, Spencer has evolved to recognize that sustainability requires more balance
• Making space for personal life (family, living situation) enables longer-term commitment to the business
• The transition from 20s to 30s naturally brings a shift from pathological work focus to more sustainable patterns
• There's a tension between needing this evolution personally while still valuing the intensity of younger team members

Timestamp: [31:46-36:58]

People:

• Peter Thiel - Cited for his observation that CEO pay is inversely correlated with company success
• Curtis - Early Amplitude team member mentioned as having similar evolution in work habits
• Jeffrey - Early Amplitude team member mentioned as having similar evolution in work habits

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's company that has grown beyond his "wildest dreams"

Concepts:

• Ultimate Founder Archetype - Spencer's mental model of the ideal founder characteristics that maximize chances of success
• Founder Evolution - The natural progression from intense single-mindedness to a more balanced, sustainable approach
• Work-Life Integration - Spencer's view that personal matters primarily cause stress when they divert focus from work
• Founder Psychology - The willingness to reshape one's identity and lifestyle to maximize company-building success
• Sustainability - The shift from short-term intensity to long-term balance that enables decades of leadership

Timestamp: [31:46-36:58]

When asked about aspects of his "ultimate founder" identity he's been willing to give up, Spencer reflects on how his relationship with money and comfort has evolved:

"At first it was nothing for a while and then it was like 30, 45K a year, like a tiny amount. And then eventually I got to like closer to market but still on the low end... now I pay myself 450K a year, which is still in like the bottom 10% of comparables if you look at public company CEOs in my position."

Spencer describes his previous mindset as almost religious in nature:

"I was attached, I was in love with the religion of not making money, where it's like it forces you to be scrappy and focused and you don't have all these things... they say 'more money, more problems.' You don't have all these problems and other aspects of your life to deal with."

He acknowledges this approach was partly about setting an example:

"You lead by example, and if you're the most overpaid CEO then everyone's going to be asking you for raises."

But ultimately, Spencer came to see this extreme position as counterproductive:

"I ended up realizing that was just stupid on my part. There's things that unlocks too. You have more resources to save time in ways and to get help with other things in your life. And there is a part of you that does genuinely enjoy nicer things sometimes."

He characterizes his overall life shift:

"I've gone from 95% of my life space for building a company to maybe like 70-70%. So still the vast majority of it, but you know, you have a little bit of room in your life for family and for relationships and for other piece parts of your life."

When asked if he genuinely enjoys this additional 25% of space in his life, Spencer offers a nuanced response:

"There are other parts to my life that I genuinely enjoy. I will say it's easier to just be a zealot and to just be like 'hey, I'm focused on this no matter what.' You just don't have to think... It's much less cognitive load. It's like why Jobs wore a black turtleneck every day. Eliminate the decision - you don't have to think about it."

Despite this added complexity, Spencer sees the balance as necessary for longevity:

"That balance is what allows you to go much further and much longer. I think we have an amazing opportunity and potential... and that's real, I'm not just saying that. I genuinely do believe that, and I want to set up to go do it and take advantage of it. And to do that properly, that's a many more decades thing."

Timestamp: [37:06-44:04]

When asked if he felt misunderstood by others for his intense focus, Spencer first highlights his fortune in finding a supportive partner:

"With my wife, actually, the reason I'm incredibly lucky is because she values that part of me. I got lucky in her finding me and her valuing that part of me. And so I never have never ever felt like I've had to apologize or change who I am or whatever."

He then reflects on how his singular focus appeared to others in his early days:

"I remember when I was in my early 20s, I was obsessed about it and so obsessed about what it took to build a company. And so that would be the only thing I would talk about with anyone. I'd talk about the stories of other entrepreneurs or what I'm working on or what I'm trying to figure out and learn. And not everyone's interested in that stuff."

This singular focus earned him a nickname among his MIT peers:

"They'd call me 'Startup Spencer' because that's all I was, all I would talk about. And they'd kind of joke about it, you know, 'cause it would grate some of them sometimes that literally I was like a... I had only one gear and that was it."

But Spencer's authentic response to this potential social pressure reveals his comfort with his identity:

"One of the advantages is like, part of me just doesn't care, like didn't care. Like this is what I want to do, and so I'm very comfortable going to do that. And that's not a thing that a lot of people are interested in."

He connects this focus to his natural personality:

"I've always been a person... I've always been a little bit of an obsessive personality, and building a business was a good thing, a great thing to attach it to."

Spencer shares a poignant insight from conversations with his wife:

"We joke sometimes with my wife, it's like, 'Man, if we're going to be stressed and anxious anyway about stuff, might as well be about something worthwhile.'"

This segment reveals how Spencer has not only maintained his core identity despite success, but has found ways to channel his natural disposition into meaningful work while gradually making space for other aspects of life.

Timestamp: [44:04-46:40]

• Spencer shifted from an extreme "religion of not making money" (paying himself nothing, then 30-45K) to a more balanced approach (now 450K, still in bottom 10% of comparable CEOs)
• He views his early extreme compensation stance as "pathological" in retrospect, recognizing it limited his ability to save time and enjoy certain comforts
• While still dedicating the majority of his life (70%) to work, Spencer has opened space for family, relationships, and other interests
• He acknowledges the cognitive simplicity of being a "zealot" with singular focus (comparing it to Steve Jobs' black turtleneck eliminating decision-making)
• The shift toward balance isn't about enjoying work less, but about creating sustainability for a "many more decades" journey
• In his early 20s, Spencer would compare his situation to much worse circumstances (like being drafted for Vietnam) to maintain perspective and focus
• Finding a partner who values his work-focused identity has been crucial to maintaining his authentic self
• Spencer was nicknamed "Startup Spencer" by MIT peers because of his singular conversational focus
• His naturally "obsessive personality" found a productive outlet in company building
• The philosophy of "if we're going to be stressed and anxious anyway, might as well be about something worthwhile" captures his pragmatic approach to channeling natural traits

Timestamp: [37:06-46:40]

People:

• Steve Jobs - Referenced for his black turtleneck uniform that eliminated decision-making

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's company that he dedicates the majority of his life to building
• MIT - Where Spencer's peers nicknamed him "Startup Spencer" due to his singular focus

Concepts:

• Founder Compensation - Spencer's evolution from paying himself nothing to a still-modest 450K salary
• Work-Life Balance - The shift from 95% work focus to 70%, creating space for family and other interests
• Decision Fatigue - The cognitive benefit of eliminating choices (like Jobs' uniform) to focus energy
• Sustainability - Building a life structure that can be maintained for decades rather than years
• Comparative Suffering - Spencer's early technique of comparing his situation to worse circumstances (like war) to maintain perspective
• Authentic Identity - Maintaining true self while adjusting specific behaviors for long-term sustainability
• Founder Psychology - The benefit of having an "obsessive personality" when building a company

Timestamp: [37:06-46:40]

Spencer opens up about his personal background, revealing how his natural tendencies have shaped his approach to work:

"I've always had traits that are, you know, what they call on the spectrum. Just get really interested in certain things and just, you know, kind of block out everything else and space out about the rest of the world."

When asked if his parents recognized these traits, Spencer confirms they did and adds that his parents share similar characteristics - suggesting his intense focus is partly inherited.

The conversation shifts to family planning, with Spencer confirming he and his wife Ann plan to have children eventually. When asked if he worries about the potential conflicts between family and work, he responds candidly:

"Oh I worry about it all the time."

He acknowledges the fundamental tension that exists between career and family:

"How do you make clear choices between your work and your family? That's been a dilemma for thousands of years. The tension is real there."

Spencer critiques what he sees as a harmful modern narrative:

"I think actually the biggest trouble people get themselves into is this whole... what I hesitate to say 'work-life balance'... idea that it's like, 'Hey, you don't have to make any compromises between your career and your family.' And it's like, no, you absolutely do. You absolutely have to make choices."

He offers a clear-eyed assessment of the resource constraints everyone faces:

"Your time is a limited resource, the most limited resource that every single person has. And you have to choose where you spend it - your time, your energy, your focus, your brain. So this idea that there's no tension - there absolutely is a humongous amount of tension."

Spencer references Ruth Bader Ginsburg's wisdom:

"I think it was Ruth Bader Ginsburg that said, 'You can have it all, but you can't have it all at once.'"

Despite these concerns, Spencer expresses confidence in navigating these choices with his wife:

"The part that's wonderful that I'm incredibly lucky to have is that my wife Ann is very much of the same mind of what the two of us are trying to do in life. And so I have confidence that as we navigate it, we'll figure it out."

Timestamp: [46:46-50:10]

When asked if he would change anything about his "ultimate founder" archetype now that he has 14 years of experience, Spencer stands firmly by his original model:

"Absolutely not. That was spot on. You have to remove other constraints from your life. If you have a lot of debt or you have a lot of other obligations, it's going to be tough to impossible to start a business. You have to be obsessed about it. You have to have a curiosity that drives, and you have to be willing to do it for a very long period of time. All of those are fundamental to being a founder that is going to start a successful business."

However, Spencer identifies a crucial transition he wishes he had prepared for better:

"The part that I think I was late to, and I think most founders are late to, is the transition between going from a founder to a large company executive. And I feel like I've just figured that out in the last few years."

He explains this missed opportunity:

"The same way I obsessively studied what it meant to be a successful founder, I should have studied what it meant to be a large company executive versus just showing up being like 'Oh shit, you know, you have all these people with egos and problems, and they want to be compensated and this that and the other thing.' I should have studied how do you actually make that transition and be good."

When asked if he has a new archetype for himself as a public company executive, Spencer offers a striking insight:

"I do, and I hesitate to even share it because it's psychotic in a lot of ways. You have to become the person you hate."

He explains this provocative statement by contrasting founder and executive leadership styles:

"As a founder CEO, you are always leading from the front. So if there's a hard business challenge or hard people challenge or hard technical whatever - the hardest thing, you got to go do yourself, because you're not going to ask anyone to do anything you would not do."

Spencer references Michael Jordan as an exemplar of this approach:

"Michael Jordan had this thing - he wasn't going to ask anyone to do something that he wasn't willing to do. So he realized in order to win a championship, he was too skinny, and so he needed to hit the weight room and bulk up, and he led and inspired the other teammates around him to do the same."

But as a company scales, this approach becomes impossible:

"As a large company executive though, it flips because there's too much to do. You can no longer be the best at everything. You can no longer lead by example... Now I have thousands of customers, many different products, and lots of different functions within Amplitude. I can't go lead by example on even a few of them."

This forces a fundamental shift in leadership style:

"Your mentality shifts from 'how do I lead from the front' to 'hey, it's my job to kind of become the jerk executive, manage and deploy people or resources against a problem and evaluate its impact.' And you kind of feel like a jerk because instead of being in the trenches with them trying to solve the problem, you're just being like 'hey, that wasn't really good enough, you guys got to do a better job on this.'"

Spencer provides another example around compensation:

"You cannot delegate who gets compensated what to someone else. As the king, it's your job to say who gets how much gold. I had the mentality for a while like 'I don't pay myself anything, I don't give a shit about how much I earn. Why should I have to worry about how much you earn either?' But as it turns out, choosing who gets paid what and what the company values is an incredibly important part of a CEO's role. You cannot delegate that."

Timestamp: [50:10-55:17]

• Spencer has natural tendencies toward intense focus that he describes as "on the spectrum," inherited from parents with similar traits
• Despite planning to have children eventually, he worries about balancing family and work responsibilities
• Spencer rejects the myth that there are no trade-offs between career and family - he believes time and focus are fundamentally limited resources requiring choices
• He stands by his original "ultimate founder" archetype as still accurate after 14 years of experience
• The transition from founder to large company executive represents a major psychological shift that most founders are unprepared for
• As companies scale, executives must move from "leading from the front" to "deploying resources and evaluating impact"
• This transition often requires becoming "the person you hate" - moving from being in the trenches to evaluating others' work
• Key executive responsibilities like compensation decisions cannot be delegated, even if founders would prefer to avoid them
• The Michael Jordan leadership model (never asking others to do what you wouldn't) becomes impossible to maintain at scale
• Finding a partner with aligned values and expectations is crucial for navigating work-family tensions

Timestamp: [46:46-55:17]

People:

• Ann - Spencer's wife of nearly 10 years who values his work-focused nature
• Ruth Bader Ginsburg - Quoted for her perspective that "you can have it all, but you can't have it all at once"
• Michael Jordan - Referenced for his leadership philosophy of not asking teammates to do what he wouldn't do himself
• Sterling - Spencer's 5-year-old nephew (his brother's child)

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's company, now with thousands of customers and multiple products

Concepts:

• Neurodiversity - Spencer references traits "on the spectrum" that contribute to his intense focus
• Work-Life Tension - The fundamental trade-offs required between career and family responsibilities
• Resource Allocation - The limited nature of time, energy and focus requiring explicit choices
• Leadership Transition - The shift from founder-style "leading from the front" to executive-style "deploying resources"
• Compensation Philosophy - The critical role of CEOs in determining pay structures that reflect company values
• Founder-to-Executive Evolution - The psychological transformation required when scaling from startup to large company

Timestamp: [46:46-55:17]

Spencer opens up about his personal background, revealing how his natural tendencies have shaped his approach to work:

"I've always had traits that are, you know, what they call on the spectrum. Just get really interested in certain things and just, you know, kind of block out everything else and space out about the rest of the world."

When asked if his parents recognized these traits, Spencer confirms they did and adds that his parents share similar characteristics - suggesting his intense focus is partly inherited.

The conversation shifts to family planning, with Spencer confirming he and his wife Ann plan to have children eventually. When asked if he worries about the potential conflicts between family and work, he responds candidly:

"Oh I worry about it all the time."

He acknowledges the fundamental tension that exists between career and family:

"How do you make clear choices between your work and your family? That's been a dilemma for thousands of years. The tension is real there."

Spencer critiques what he sees as a harmful modern narrative:

"I think actually the biggest trouble people get themselves into is this whole... what I hesitate to say 'work-life balance'... idea that it's like, 'Hey, you don't have to make any compromises between your career and your family.' And it's like, no, you absolutely do. You absolutely have to make choices."

He offers a clear-eyed assessment of the resource constraints everyone faces:

"Your time is a limited resource, the most limited resource that every single person has. And you have to choose where you spend it - your time, your energy, your focus, your brain. So this idea that there's no tension - there absolutely is a humongous amount of tension."

Spencer references Ruth Bader Ginsburg's wisdom:

"I think it was Ruth Bader Ginsburg that said, 'You can have it all, but you can't have it all at once.'"

Despite these concerns, Spencer expresses confidence in navigating these choices with his wife:

"The part that's wonderful that I'm incredibly lucky to have is that my wife Ann is very much of the same mind of what the two of us are trying to do in life. And so I have confidence that as we navigate it, we'll figure it out."

Timestamp: [46:46-50:10]

When asked if he would change anything about his "ultimate founder" archetype now that he has 14 years of experience, Spencer stands firmly by his original model:

"Absolutely not. That was spot on. You have to remove other constraints from your life. If you have a lot of debt or you have a lot of other obligations, it's going to be tough to impossible to start a business. You have to be obsessed about it. You have to have a curiosity that drives, and you have to be willing to do it for a very long period of time. All of those are fundamental to being a founder that is going to start a successful business."

However, Spencer identifies a crucial transition he wishes he had prepared for better:

"The part that I think I was late to, and I think most founders are late to, is the transition between going from a founder to a large company executive. And I feel like I've just figured that out in the last few years."

He explains this missed opportunity:

"The same way I obsessively studied what it meant to be a successful founder, I should have studied what it meant to be a large company executive versus just showing up being like 'Oh shit, you know, you have all these people with egos and problems, and they want to be compensated and this that and the other thing.' I should have studied how do you actually make that transition and be good."

When asked if he has a new archetype for himself as a public company executive, Spencer offers a striking insight:

"I do, and I hesitate to even share it because it's psychotic in a lot of ways. You have to become the person you hate."

He explains this provocative statement by contrasting founder and executive leadership styles:

"As a founder CEO, you are always leading from the front. So if there's a hard business challenge or hard people challenge or hard technical whatever - the hardest thing, you got to go do yourself, because you're not going to ask anyone to do anything you would not do."

Spencer references Michael Jordan as an exemplar of this approach:

"Michael Jordan had this thing - he wasn't going to ask anyone to do something that he wasn't willing to do. So he realized in order to win a championship, he was too skinny, and so he needed to hit the weight room and bulk up, and he led and inspired the other teammates around him to do the same."

But as a company scales, this approach becomes impossible:

"As a large company executive though, it flips because there's too much to do. You can no longer be the best at everything. You can no longer lead by example... Now I have thousands of customers, many different products, and lots of different functions within Amplitude. I can't go lead by example on even a few of them."

This forces a fundamental shift in leadership style:

"Your mentality shifts from 'how do I lead from the front' to 'hey, it's my job to kind of become the jerk executive, manage and deploy people or resources against a problem and evaluate its impact.' And you kind of feel like a jerk because instead of being in the trenches with them trying to solve the problem, you're just being like 'hey, that wasn't really good enough, you guys got to do a better job on this.'"

Spencer provides another example around compensation:

"You cannot delegate who gets compensated what to someone else. As the king, it's your job to say who gets how much gold. I had the mentality for a while like 'I don't pay myself anything, I don't give a shit about how much I earn. Why should I have to worry about how much you earn either?' But as it turns out, choosing who gets paid what and what the company values is an incredibly important part of a CEO's role. You cannot delegate that."

Timestamp: [50:10-55:17]

• Spencer has natural tendencies toward intense focus that he describes as "on the spectrum," inherited from parents with similar traits
• Despite planning to have children eventually, he worries about balancing family and work responsibilities
• Spencer rejects the myth that there are no trade-offs between career and family - he believes time and focus are fundamentally limited resources requiring choices
• He stands by his original "ultimate founder" archetype as still accurate after 14 years of experience
• The transition from founder to large company executive represents a major psychological shift that most founders are unprepared for
• As companies scale, executives must move from "leading from the front" to "deploying resources and evaluating impact"
• This transition often requires becoming "the person you hate" - moving from being in the trenches to evaluating others' work
• Key executive responsibilities like compensation decisions cannot be delegated, even if founders would prefer to avoid them
• The Michael Jordan leadership model (never asking others to do what you wouldn't) becomes impossible to maintain at scale
• Finding a partner with aligned values and expectations is crucial for navigating work-family tensions

Timestamp: [46:46-55:17]

People:

• Ann - Spencer's wife of nearly 10 years who values his work-focused nature
• Ruth Bader Ginsburg - Quoted for her perspective that "you can have it all, but you can't have it all at once"
• Michael Jordan - Referenced for his leadership philosophy of not asking teammates to do what he wouldn't do himself
• Sterling - Spencer's 5-year-old nephew (his brother's child)

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's company, now with thousands of customers and multiple products

Concepts:

• Neurodiversity - Spencer references traits "on the spectrum" that contribute to his intense focus
• Work-Life Tension - The fundamental trade-offs required between career and family responsibilities
• Resource Allocation - The limited nature of time, energy and focus requiring explicit choices
• Leadership Transition - The shift from founder-style "leading from the front" to executive-style "deploying resources"
• Compensation Philosophy - The critical role of CEOs in determining pay structures that reflect company values
• Founder-to-Executive Evolution - The psychological transformation required when scaling from startup to large company

Timestamp: [46:46-55:17]

Continuing his reflection on the transition from founder to large company executive, Spencer draws a fascinating historical parallel to kingship roles across societies:

"There's this ancient history thing where if you look at the roles of king across different societies, there's like three of them. There's you have to be the chief general - you have to lead the troops in the field to win the battles. You have to be the chief justice - so you have to arbitrate disputes between your nobles throughout the realm. And you have to be the chief priest - which means you have to ask, you're the person in charge of asking the gods for their blessing for whatever it is you're trying to do."

Spencer then connects these ancient leadership archetypes to the modern CEO role:

"You fast forward to modern times, what the role of a CEO or an executive is at a company, it's actually quite similar. You have to say 'Hey, where are we going, what's the strategy?' You need to arbitrate disputes, you need to break ties. And then you need to rally and inspire people and get them excited for the future."

This structured approach represents a significant shift from the early-stage founder mindset:

"That's a very different mentality from a founder CEO where you're kind of like this scrappy, you're the leader of this scrappy outfit that's trying to win this mission against impossible odds. Now you're in charge of running a kingdom, and that looks very, very different."

When asked if the types of problems on his worry list have changed over the years, Spencer reveals how his approach to leadership challenges has evolved:

"Before, I did not have a framework and skills, or more importantly, the mentality on how to handle those things - like how do you act as a chief justice and arbitrate disputes?"

He shares a specific technique he now employs as "chief justice":

"One of my favorite phrases is if someone complains to you about someone else, what I immediately say back to them is 'What did that person tell you when you gave them that feedback?' Because it sets a whole bunch of expectations. One, don't come to me with this, you got to give that person feedback first. Two, you can't just give the feedback, you have to hear what the response is."

Spencer observes that 90% of the time, the complainer hasn't actually had the direct conversation, revealing how this approach effectively redirects interpersonal issues.

Despite these changes in leadership style, Spencer notes that the fundamental business challenges remain consistent:

"In terms of what we have to do as a business, it's the exact same it was 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 14 years ago when you first started Amplitude. It's build a great product, convince customers to use it, and you're just doing the same loop again and again and again and scaling it up."

When asked which of the three leadership roles he finds most challenging, Spencer responds:

"I love being the priest and the general. Justice sometimes can get grating, but the priest and the general are fun. You know, inspire people and show them what's possible. That's great. I've been doing that from when I was obsessive about building companies at 22."

Timestamp: [55:16-1:02:56]

When asked if fatigue explains why founders typically leave after 10 years, Spencer's response is immediate:

"Definitely. So yes, absolutely. The reason founders leave after 10 years - a big element is they're tired."

However, he quickly adds that his own experience differs:

"I'm not. There have been points in time where it's gotten rough, but actually part of going from that 95% to you know, call it 70% is that you do have more space and more room for recovery."

Spencer credits his team with making this sustainable approach possible:

"I have more help and more resources. I have phenomenal - I'm very lucky to work with the executive team that I have and my co-founders and the board and the team we have broadly at Amplitude."

He pinpoints a key error that leads to founder burnout:

"I think a lot of reasons why founders get tired is because the company gets bigger, they feel like they still got to lead from the front on everything, and it's impossible. They burn themselves out. You have to understand the transition in your role."

This transition brings unexpected benefits:

"One of the advantages of that transition as well is that because you're working through other people, you actually have a lot more leverage. And so the company is not dependent on you personally in the pace that you set."

Spencer distinguishes between setting the standard and personally driving execution:

"It's important you set the tone of how fast you want to go and you demonstrate that and hold people accountable to that, but it's not bottlenecked. It's important you set the standard. You have to set the standard, but it's not important you're the one driving it all the time anymore."

This realization has allowed Spencer to create a more sustainable leadership approach capable of spanning decades rather than years - avoiding the fate of many founders who burn out after a decade.

Timestamp: [1:02:56-1:04:37]

• Spencer identifies three core CEO roles analogous to ancient kingship functions: chief general (strategy), chief justice (dispute resolution), and chief priest (inspiration)
• The transition from scrappy founder leading a mission to executive leading a "kingdom" requires fundamentally different skills and mindsets
• While leadership approaches must evolve dramatically, the core business challenges remain consistent: build great products and convince customers to use them
• Spencer has developed specific techniques for the "chief justice" role, such as redirecting complaints by asking "What did they say when you gave them that feedback?"
• Leaders naturally gravitate toward certain aspects of leadership - Spencer enjoys the "general" and "priest" roles but finds the "justice" role more challenging
• Founder burnout after 10 years often stems from failure to transition from "leading from the front" to leveraging others
• Creating space for recovery (reducing from 95% work focus to 70%) contributes to sustainability
• Leaders must distinguish between setting the standard (which remains their responsibility) and personally driving execution (which can be delegated)
• Working through others creates leverage that makes leadership more sustainable in the long term
• Transitioning from startup to scale-up involves a loss of the early "fanaticism" that some founders miss

Timestamp: [55:16-1:04:37]

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's company, now in its 14th year with a full executive team

Concepts:

• Three Leadership Archetypes - The general (strategy), justice (arbitration), and priest (inspiration) roles adapted from ancient kingship
• Leadership Transition - The psychological and practical shift from founder to large company executive
• Feedback Redirection - Spencer's technique of asking "What did they say when you gave them that feedback?" to handle complaints
• Business Fundamentals - The consistent core challenges of building products and convincing customers that persist regardless of company size
• Founder Burnout - The phenomenon of founders leaving around the 10-year mark due to exhaustion
• Leadership Leverage - The increased impact possible when working through others rather than personally driving execution
• Standard Setting vs. Execution - The distinction between establishing expectations and personally implementing them
• Organizational Dilution - The natural decrease in "fanaticism" that occurs as companies scale and ownership becomes more dispersed

Timestamp: [55:16-1:04:37]

When asked about the tangible tradeoffs of becoming his "ultimate founder" archetype, Spencer first reflects on the financial sacrifices:

"First, no money for a while, a very long time."

Remarkably, Spencer claims this didn't bother him personally:

"I didn't care. I rewired my brain not to care. I actually didn't care. When I was 22, I already felt incredibly rich beyond my wildest dreams because... there were certain things that weren't accessible to me, like couldn't buy a house, can't fly first class, but you know, I can still travel relatively cheaply."

He maintained perspective through comparative thinking:

"I look at the luxury we have compared to previous generations. It's incredible. You know, smartphone that's smarter than going back 40 years like or 50 years like all of computing ever. That comparison to the conscript in war or to the monk, that's what I think about. And so I'm like, yeah, I'm incredibly wealthy."

However, his career choice did impact his family, particularly his Chinese-Malaysian mother:

"Chinese communities, it's always comparing your kids among the relatives. It's like 'oh my kid's making such and such money at this thing.' So I went from I was doing a year in finance where I was making hundreds of thousands of dollars to now unemployed startup founder. She can no longer brag to her cousins about how well her son is doing."

The sacrifice that Spencer feels most acutely wasn't financial, but social:

"The one I feel the most and I regret the most—it was the right choice, but I did miss out on part of life—is just having lots of friends and being social in your 20s. I didn't focus on that part of my life. And so I didn't build as strong relationships with people."

When asked if he would deliberately decline social invitations:

"Yes. I'd go out once in a while, you know. Early on when I was first out here, I'd actually still go out quite a bit. I'd go out like once a week on the weekends with some group of friends. But then as the company ramped up and stuff got more intense, it was less and less."

Spencer also temporarily avoided romantic relationships:

"I swore off romantic relationships for a while too because everyone's like 'hey Spencer, you're too intense on this thing, all you think about...'"

He shares a revealing anecdote about a date where he tried to avoid talking about work:

"I remember I was on one date, this is way before Ann, where I was like so obsessed about the startup stuff, that's all I talk about. I need to make a point of not talking about anything startup-related. So I went out on this date with this woman and got to the end of the date and she made this comment to me, she was like 'Man Spencer, everything is like career with you.' And I'm like 'What the?' Like I made a point not to talk about any of this shit."

This experience helped him realize how deeply his identity had become intertwined with his work:

"It had infected my brain to such a degree. After that I was like 'All right, whatever. I give up. I'm just, I'm not even going to try for a while on this.'"

Timestamp: [1:04:38-1:10:17]

After struggling with relationships, Spencer shares how he ultimately found a partner who accepted his intense focus:

"I got very lucky because Ann and I had become friends and she actually valued that part of me. I told her very early on, 'Hey, this is incredibly important to me and I'm not in a place in my life where I can compromise on it right now, and you've got to be okay with that.' And the vast majority of people I know are not, but she was very gracious and actually valued that part of me."

This relationship has now lasted nearly a decade:

"It came at the time you least expected and you actually got to have this very fulfilling part of life that's even better than you expected because you get someone who values you for who you are and you value them for who they are, and you have the shared vision of what you're going to go do together."

When asked about health as another potential tradeoff, Spencer acknowledges initially neglecting it:

"It was [a tradeoff]. For the first few years I was very reckless on that in terms of not eating well, drinking soda all the time, not getting sleep."

However, he eventually recognized this approach was counterproductive:

"After a while I realized that keeping your health up actually makes you more effective. It's actually good to regularly get sleep, to cut sugar, to take care of your body, to exercise."

Spencer frames this realization in terms of optimization:

"You can go like a year or maybe even a few years without doing that stuff, but it ends up being a net negative in terms of your output for a company. Even if you were just to pathologically look at your output for a company, taking care of your health is a net positive."

Regarding his earlier comments about friendship, Spencer clarifies his feelings:

"I want to be clear I don't regret it in the sense like I thought it's the right decision in retrospect. I feel bad. I feel bad about it in a bunch of ways, but that was the choice I made."

He shares a touching example of how his limited capacity for friendship impacted specific relationships:

"One of my close friends from school, this guy named David Chen, he was always incredibly gracious with me. He would go out of his way to check in on me and see how I'm doing. And I deeply appreciated it, and I felt like I couldn't reciprocate at the same level. But he was so gracious, he even recognized that and was like 'Hey, you know, I just want to make sure you're okay and all of that sort of stuff.'"

Timestamp: [1:10:17-1:13:06]

When asked what has most surprised him about his journey, Spencer expresses genuine amazement at Amplitude's success:

"First, I'm just blown away by how far we got. I never—I would have been happy if we were running some crappy little tiny business that somehow I'd managed to survive by a shoestring. And so the fact that we've not just done that but gotten to lead the category we're doing and turn it into a multiple hundred million dollar business, you're just like, 'shit, like dang.'"

He reflects on what he might have done differently:

"I think I was slow to shift in terms of parts of the mentality as I said, and then I think there were aspects that I was kind of pathological around, like not paying myself for a while. I thought it would get us more success, and in retrospect, it didn't actually get us that much success. I mean, it set the tone for who I was and that was helpful, but it caused a bunch of pain on a bunch of fronts that I could have avoided."

However, Spencer emphasizes that these regrets are minor compared to the overall journey:

"Those are all so minor. I think it's one of these things where it's like you look at the data points: 'Hey if you change yourself to this person'—and I read a lot of Paul Graham's essays—'you can find a startup and have some success.' And you're like 'great, that sounds like a great bet,' and you're kind of not sure until you actually see it play out."

He concludes with a sense of wonder at how his bet on becoming the "ultimate founder" paid off:

"Then you see it play out and you're like, 'Wow, this is—I my gut wasn't sure if this was the case, but it turned out way better than you could have possibly expected.'"

Timestamp: [1:13:06-1:14:52]

• Spencer "rewired his brain" not to care about money or material possessions as a young founder, maintaining perspective by comparing his life to much harder circumstances
• The trade-off he feels most acutely wasn't financial but social—missing the opportunity to build deep friendships in his 20s
• His work identity became so deeply ingrained that even when deliberately trying not to discuss it on dates, he was still perceived as career-obsessed
• Finding a partner who valued his intensity and commitment to work came unexpectedly and has been sustained for nearly a decade
• Initial neglect of health (poor diet, lack of sleep) proved counterproductive—he eventually realized taking care of physical wellbeing actually improves work output
• Spencer feels "bad" about not reciprocating the care some friends showed him, but doesn't regret the choice as it enabled Amplitude's success
• He remains amazed at Amplitude's success, having expected to run "some crappy little tiny business" rather than a category-leading public company
• In retrospect, some "pathological" behaviors like extreme self-sacrifice on compensation didn't contribute as much to success as he thought they would
• Reading essays by figures like Paul Graham helped shape his founder archetype, but the real-world success exceeded his expectations
• The benefits of his extreme founder approach have far outweighed the costs from his perspective

Timestamp: [1:04:38-1:14:52]

People:

• Ann - Spencer's wife of nearly 10 years who values his work-focused nature
• David Chen - A close friend from school who remained gracious despite Spencer's limited capacity for friendship
• Paul Graham - Writer whose essays on startups influenced Spencer's founder archetype

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's analytics company that grew beyond his expectations to become a category leader

Concepts:

• Comparative Perspective - Spencer's technique of comparing his situation to worse circumstances (conscripts, monks) to maintain contentment
• Work-Identity Fusion - How deeply Spencer's work became intertwined with his identity, affecting all aspects of life
• Founder Tradeoffs - The specific sacrifices Spencer made in social life, health, and financial comfort to build his company
• Relationship Compatibility - Finding a partner who values rather than resents intense work focus
• Health Optimization - The realization that physical wellbeing actually improves rather than detracts from work performance
• Cultural Expectations - The pressure from Spencer's Chinese-Malaysian family background regarding career prestige
• Friendship Reciprocity - The imbalance in give-and-take that occurred in Spencer's friendships due to work focus

Timestamp: [1:04:38-1:14:52]

As the interview winds down, Spencer enthusiastically responds when asked if Amplitude is hiring:

"Oh absolutely. So much!"

He specifically highlights one area where he's personally involved in recruitment:

"If you're at the bleeding edge of leveraging AI to mess around with large data sets, we want to talk to you on that. I want to personally talk to you on that, because there is so much opportunity, we're in such early days, and there's not many companies who have what we have on that."

Spencer emphasizes that this is an area he's "personally trying to figure out as CEO," underscoring the strategic importance of AI capabilities to Amplitude's future.

Timestamp: [1:14:54-1:15:42]

When asked what the word "grit" means to him, Spencer offers a profound definition that encapsulates his founder philosophy:

"If you're willing to endure pain for a long period of time in the service of something greater, that quality trumps almost anything else."

He suggests this insight isn't unique to him:

"You guys have talked to lots of people on this podcast already, but anyone who's done anything worthwhile - that's the lesson through and through. And so the wisdom's out there."

Spencer then articulates what he believes distinguishes truly exceptional founders:

"The hard part, I think, I see most people, they'll make small adjustments in their life like 'Oh yeah, be a little more grittier, work harder, blah blah blah.' But if you can rethink about who you are, to think about 'hey, I'm a gritty person, I am willing to go without pay, I'm willing to not have success, I'm willing to be obsessively curious about a problem to the exclusion of all else' - they don't reframe to that extreme."

He concludes with a reflection on his own radical approach:

"Honestly, I got lucky in that like I was like 'Okay, let me take that word to the extreme and see what the outcome is.' And it turned out pretty good."

Timestamp: [1:15:42-1:16:54]

• Amplitude is actively recruiting talent at the intersection of AI and large data sets, an area where Spencer is personally involved
• Grit, as defined by Spencer, means willingness to "endure pain for a long period of time in the service of something greater"
• The difference between moderate success and extraordinary achievement often lies in completely reframing your identity rather than making incremental adjustments
• Spencer's approach involved taking grit "to the extreme" - a radical commitment that proved successful
• True grit involves a willingness to go without pay, face failure, and maintain obsessive curiosity "to the exclusion of all else"
• The fundamental wisdom about grit is widely available, but few people are willing to embrace it at the level required for exceptional outcomes

Timestamp: [1:14:54-1:16:54]

Companies & Products:

• Amplitude - Spencer's analytics company that is actively hiring AI talent for large data set applications
• Kleiner Perkins - Venture capital firm producing the Grit podcast, where Jubin is a partner

Concepts:

• Grit - The willingness to endure pain for extended periods in service of something greater
• AI for Data Analytics - The emerging field where Amplitude is focusing recruitment efforts
• Identity Reframing - Spencer's approach of completely reshaping self-concept rather than making incremental changes
• Extreme Commitment - The willingness to take principles to their logical extreme rather than making partial adjustments

Timestamp: [1:14:54-1:17:10]

Congratulations on scrolling all the way through Spencer Skates' wisdom! If Spencer were here, he'd say you just displayed the kind of persistence that builds billion-dollar companies.

In a world of TL;DR, you chose the path of deeper understanding. That's not just reading—that's analytics.

Like Spencer's approach to innovation, you didn't settle for the highlight reel. You went deep into the system architecture, explored every insight, and processed all the data points.

Whether you're building products, leading teams, or preparing for your own founder journey, remember:

"If you're willing to endure pain for a long period of time in the service of something greater, that quality trumps almost anything else."

Your scrolling finger might need a rest, but your brain is now operating at 95% Spencer capacity.

Thanks for reading. Now go redefine some categories!

P.S. If you're at the bleeding edge of AI and large datasets, Spencer wants to talk to you. Like, personally.